Second part

0:09:07 Memories of Dian Fossey; tracking gorillas; Fossey's phobia of heights; this period of my life was a wonderful time at Madingley with researchers coming in and out all the time, passionately interested in animals and in their research, being able to communicate with each other; Pat Bateson was almost my first student; this period began in 1968 I was 45 and continued for the next ten to fifteen years; personally happy too as I had remarried

7:37:23 I have always wanted to make the world a better place; when first a fellow of St John's there were five fellows, all historians, who teased me about this; decided it would be better to study children than monkeys; recruited Judy Dunn to the unit and she helped me to get interested in child development; I was interested in mother-child relations but we didn't agree on attachment theory; I started a study with my second wife, Joan Stevenson-Hinde, on four year olds and their mothers; I worked in nursery schools with the four year olds and she worked in the homes; became in effect part of the nursery school; Joan got interested in shyness in children and has gone on to do remarkable work; I tried too hard to use the recording techniques which had done so well with monkeys and they weren't really applicable for children, thus not especially fruitful years

12:12:05 Had thought that if we understood how people behaved then could help to make the world a better place; [Macfarlane on own work on children in different cultures]; during that period started the Cambridge Association against Nuclear Warfare; Pat Bateson was partly involved; then got involved in ex-servicemen's C.N.D. to alter the perception that C.N.D. was just peopled by long-haired hippies; from that graduated into Pugwash, an organization that grew out of the Russell-Einstein manifesto in 1955 against nuclear weapons; it gave rise to conferences on science and world affairs, the first meeting of which was held in 1957 and involved scientists from both sides of the iron curtain; has had many subsequent meetings and workshops, mostly on nuclear weapons but on other subjects too; the movement got the Nobel Peace prize with Sir Joseph Rotblat in 1995; when I joined in the 1980's it worked primarily at the political level, trying to get the right scientific insights across to politicians; politicians have listened because of its impeccable scientific integrity; this has taken up a lot of my time in retirement

19:31:12 In 1989 I was elected Master of St John's which cut down research for five years; I really enjoyed being Master because at the centre of things; spent a lot of time raising money for a new undergraduate library; did about sixty meetings all over the world; although I resented the time spent, these meetings could be fun because the people who came were the loyal Johnians; their questions reflected the nostalgia they felt for the college; successful in raising the money; debates on whether the library should be open all night and later noted students working there at 4am; John's is a lovely college and very cooperative at that time; did write some papers at that time but began to feel itchy for research; did lecture a little each year and from the mid-nineties have been lecturing on personal relationships to SPS; gave that up when I was eighty as I thought it was improper to be lecturing on love to young students; Joan and I are still involved in a course of lectures in psychology; quite enjoy lecturing; in the 1950's when I was very insecure without a proper job, St John's made me steward and I was in charge of food in the hall and the undergraduates' wine cellar; they did not realize I had no interest in either; two or three years later they made me a tutor instead which I enjoyed as I had contact with undergraduates; gave it up when I got the Royal Society research professorship in 1963

27:51:22 Reflections on the causes of war; two things essential with institutionalised war, supply of weapons and young people willing to carry them; my view is that although aggressiveness plays a part, the real issue is duty; [further reflections on war including Macfarlane's]

34:19:12 Interest in religion stemmed from my upbringing; as mentioned before I became an agnostic on the wartime voyage but put off further thought on it until retirement; when I was Master I wrote a book on relationships and another on war, and also wrote a book called 'Why Gods Persist' which is trying to use all the biology, psychology and social science that I have learnt to bear on the question why people believe in gods and why religion is so powerful; not keen on Richard Dawkins denigration of religion as a lot of people get a lot out of it; he treats religion as a unitary entity whereas  following Malinowski I would want to divide it into structural beliefs, narratives, ritual, moral code, social aspects and religious experience; each of these are mutually supportive but can be to the advantage of individuals, although less clear about religious experience; language people use to describe it is very like describing an aesthetic experience except for the interpretation; don't get Christians who have had visions of Buddha; began to feel that morality is the most important thing in the world today; wrote a book 'Why Good is Good' trying to show that what is basic in society is something like do as you would be done by; that is compatible with the importance of exchange and how moral precepts are passed on by interaction between what people do and what people are supposed to do; why are people nice? Recent thought is because early humans lived in competing groups that had to be cooperative with each other but not with another group; groups devised their own precepts and the ten commandments are not universally applicable; passed down through a dialectic about what people do and what they are supposed to do; in my lifetime that dialectic has led to divorce becoming more acceptable

42:55:00 Have just finished another book which goes a bit further and is trying to use an objective approach about how morality actually works in the real world; we have rules  but in nearly every case we have a means of excusing yourself from them; in many institutions in our society behaviour that is incompatible is either condoned or encouraged; in business ethics you no longer do as you would be done by but do the best for yourself; this is justified by the economists saying it is good for the consumer; in war soldiers are encouraged to kill; politicians by political necessity have to lie; in law you can't have a legal system without barristers who defend people whom they may suspect are guilty

45:44:23 Memory of J.B.S. Haldane at a disastrous early lecture I gave at University College; John Maynard Smith and G.P. Wells let a bat go in the auditorium and it flitted in and out of the projector beam and the audience was in hysterics; Haldane kindly took me off for a drink afterwards; brief reference to incest avoidance