Herbert Huppert interviewed by Alan Macfarlane 25th May 2009

0:09:07 Born in Sydney, Australia, 1943; my maternal grandfather was a shamus in a Viennese synagogue; both he and his wife were very religious; I got to know them when they came out to Australia in about 1947-8; the remarkable thing about my paternal grandparents is that I knew nothing about them; my sister and I both assumed that they perished in the Holocaust although we had not been told; my father died when I was thirteen; about seven or eight years ago my sister did some extensive research in the Viennese archives and found that both had died natural deaths in hospital in 1935 and 1937; my father rarely talked about his time in Vienna and neither did my mother; she would talk about St Stephen's dome in Vienna and the giant wheel nearby; when I was eight I bought her a book on Vienna for her birthday with both illustrated on the cover; she was clearly upset by it and I never saw the book again; many years after when both were dead (my mother died when I was twenty-two) I heard that a few months before they left Vienna my father was told to queue up to get a visa to leave; the night before he was warned that the queue was to be bombed by Nazis; he decided not to join the queue and it was bombed; two weeks later he did get an exit visa; they left in 1938 and arrived in Australia on 26th January 1939

4:15:05 When my father died my mother handled it badly and she didn't talk about him; some forty years later my sister and I got together and for the first time started talking about our father; we found our images of him very different; I remembered him as a gregarious, fun-loving chap and she, as rather depressive and upset; maybe neither description is correct; I remember him as a wonderful man who would take me boating, and I felt close to him; my mother was a very enthusiastic woman, not at all educated but quite shrewd; she would have done anything to help us; I felt very close to and loved by both of them; my father had enormous technical skills and was almost a self-taught engineer; it was not an intellectual house in any way though we would discuss news and attitudes; very different to my own house now where my wife and I discuss intellectual things all the time with my sons

7:35:19 I think that my father had been trained in a technical high school; when they got on the boat to Australia they had £50; while the boat was waiting to leave Vancouver my mother noticed a man whom she thought might be able to help them; they made his acquaintance and it turned out that he had lots of money but no abilities; they set up a knitwear factory; I heard later that the partner got the company going in the sense that he knew how to bribe shop assistants, so the knitwear was bought by places that would not normally have bought from refugees; my father hated that but was pleased that the company got going

9:20:13 My first memory is at three years old being taken to the hospital where my sister was being born; remember being quite good at arithmetic and having some understanding of English literature as we hired as a housekeeper a woman who enjoyed Shakespeare, and she would recite; remember the housekeeper showing off in a bank to a friend of my parents that I could tell the time at the age of four; I could also answer the mental arithmetic questions asked by my parents' friends; I first went to a Jewish kindergarten which I remember with both pleasure and terror; on one occasion the headmaster threatened to put me into a duplicating machine as I had been so naughty and that terrified me; generally I enjoyed the school and had lots of friends; I then went to an "institution" which my mother chose, which cost about £300 a term; it would have been better if my father had paid the money to charity and sent me to a state school; I hated this institution, Cranbrook, with a passion; I have recently come across two people who went there some ten years after me who thought it was wonderful; one is Richard Hunter who is Professor of Classics here and the other is the new Director of the Fitzwilliam; the headmaster had come from Cambridge where he got a very low third in mathematics; he was apparently a wonderful cricketer and golfer; he caned me once because I knew more mathematics than he did; I remember when I was eleven a student getting a Commonwealth Scholarship which paid his university fees, and we were given a day's holiday; when I sat for the same scholarship I was disdainful about the level, but Cranbrook had thought it a great achievement; I did have one good teacher who taught mathematics and he subsequently became headmaster; his son, Mark Bishop, influenced my son to become a chemist when he taught him; Cranbrook was everything that I hated; I went there when I was just six; clear that I could add and on that basis put me up a class without ascertaining whether I knew anything else; I found myself a year and a half younger than everyone else and I was nowhere near mature enough; that had a bad influence on me; later it became better because when I went to a proper school I could run well, but Cranbrook was a terrible institution; I left when I had just reached twelve; I passed the exam to Sydney High and my mother gave me the choice of going there or staying at Cranbrook; if I had stayed in Cranbrook five more years I would not be here today; they taught badly; they hired a chemistry teacher who was a Nazi who told us how wonderful it had been flying over England and bombing it, and also about the problem of German Jews; it was just unbelievable; there was bullying, but don't know whether it was anti-Semitic or just of younger people; we were forced to have a shower after P.T. after which we had to dress outside; there was a female music teacher who was constantly looking out at us; there were many things like that

21:33:13 Sydney High was much better and I can't remember a day of unhappiness there; it was a fabulous school and has produced some brilliant people, including Bob May, President of the Royal Society, and John Cornforth, Nobel Laureate in chemistry; we had an inspiring chemistry teacher, Leonard Basser; he was also the athletics coach and I ran for the school, something what was inconceivable at Cranbrook; I also had a mathematics teacher who was enormously motivating; I realized later that he was not a good mathematician and could not do many of the problems, but it didn't matter; without him I would not be here; mathematics was by far my strongest subject and I had intuition in it; every mathematician I know has had some really motivating teacher early on

25:54:06 On my second day at Cranbrook I was sent to the music teacher who asked me to sing; she decided that I had no musical ability so would not have any lessons in music; a week later I asked a master if he could teach me to play cricket and he told me to ask my father; as a present to myself aged forty I learnt to play the viola and reached grade five in the music exam, but I don't have any real musical ability; I am not tone deaf and enjoy music in the Chapel; on drama, I was in a few plays in both schools but did not have much ability there; I do enjoy music but the link between it and mathematics is not true for me; I am not obsessed with mathematics but am more interested in the science; mathematics is a tool by which I can get insights into physical phenomena

30:19:07 Mine was not a religious household; my mother's parents were observant and Kosher but she rebelled against it; we did keep Shabbat on Friday nights and went to Synagogue two or three times a year; I am Jewish, but not in a religious way; it means culture to me, I was Bar Mitzvahed by a wonderful man, Cantor Deutsch, who also did the same for my children; I would not have considered marrying a non-Jewish woman; I have been the treasurer of the Jewish community here but none of the dogma means anything to me; it is very much cultural, although I do feel rather uncomfortable going into the Chapel as a Jew; I am Jewish and also Australian and have found more anti-Australianism than anti-Semitism in England

37:45:07 Went to Sydney University and started doing engineering which I didn't really enjoy; did that for two year then did science, basically mathematics; I had left school at sixteen and went directly to university; joined the athletics club but was too young to make much impact; played squash, but was most interested in mathematics; I did quite well in the third year and in the final year, aged nineteen, did best of all; I had one inspiring teacher; although he could never get his equations correct he could explain the background and then I could work it our myself; he was from Manchester, a Jew, who had taught in schools, got a PhD and came to Sydney; he was shrewd and I think I learned something about university politics from him; I had another inspiring man who became the chief scientific advisor to the Ministry of Defence in Australia, Tom Fink, who was Professor of Engineering; in my final year I did an essay on turbulence with him; he expressed sadness that I had given up engineering after the second year; I thought my marks were not very good but he looked them up and found there had been a transcription error, and they were much better than those published; I came second in mathematics my third year; just before my final exams I learned that my third year paper had been marked down unfairly, which had prevented me from being first in the year; in my finals I did come first and got a gold medal

45:06:05 I have not been interested in politics as such as it is so time-consuming; my son, Julian, has been a county councillor for two terms so I learn enough about Lib-Dem politics through him; I am not interested in large-scale university politics, but am interested in how you get departments going; Ron Oxburgh is fabulous at getting people to do what he wants and I wish I had his skills; I like guiding students along so that they feel confident in their work; I am the director of the Institute of Theoretical Geophysics which has about thirty people and seems to be a happy place; an important part of it is that we meet socially as well as scientifically so people talk together

48:05:09 While a Sydney undergraduate, there was a competition among us to write to American universities asking to be taken on as a graduate student; the winner would be the person who had the most replies; in Sydney the best mark you could get was an HD (high distinction), the next best, D (distinction), then C (credit) and P (pass); American universities had no idea what any of these letters meant; one man, C. C. Lin, a famous mathematician at M.I.T. wrote back saying that although he didn't understand the marking, they did have a colleague working in Canberra and if I worked with him for a year and he recommended me, then he would take me; this was John Miles, and I worked with him in Canberra for a year which was arguably the worst year of my life; Canberra was just boring beyond belief, and I was the only student of John Miles; he asked me if I would like to go with him to La Jolla where he was taking up a job six months later and I agreed; I left Australia when I was twenty-one and went to southern California; the University of California at San Diego is most famous for its connection with the Scripps Institute of Oceanography; I got a PhD from there; had some wonderful mathematics teachers, including John Miles; I met Dan Mackenzie there from whom  I learned about science, trying to understand the physical world; John Miles was more interested in using mathematics and not so interested in the science; for Dan mathematics is just a tool; I did have some latent curiosity about science, but Dan was so excited by it; Bob Parker, with whom he wrote his famous paper on plate tectonics, was much more interested in the mathematics than Dan, and I just found Dan's view much more interesting

56:50:11 I did my PhD on flows of air over mountains and lee waves; near the end of my time I told Miles that I could draw streamline patterns to show what the flows looked like; he thought that my estimate that it would take a week made it a waste of my time, however I did it; today nobody will remember the mathematics but the flow diagrams have been reproduced and are still quoted; it is an example of how the presentation makes an enormous difference; I then came for what I thought would be a one-year post doc to Cambridge in 1968